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	<title>Comments on: How Old Is Old?</title>
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	<description>My story of being new in an old church...</description>
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		<title>By: P Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.newlutheran.com/2009/07/01/how-old-is-old/comment-page-1/#comment-60</link>
		<dc:creator>P Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 04:23:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>As an older pastor I believe cronological age has little to do with connecting to younger folks. I have seen other churches where they have older pastors and the primary congregational demographic is 20-30. You can check out our website, which is still in progress, but any feedback to make it more appealing would be welcomed. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an older pastor I believe cronological age has little to do with connecting to younger folks. I have seen other churches where they have older pastors and the primary congregational demographic is 20-30. You can check out our website, which is still in progress, but any feedback to make it more appealing would be welcomed.</p>
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		<title>By: newlutheran</title>
		<link>http://www.newlutheran.com/2009/07/01/how-old-is-old/comment-page-1/#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>newlutheran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 13:38:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newlutheran.com/?p=14#comment-25</guid>
		<description>Good points, Ron. 
 
While you&#039;re right in saying that an age gap does not automatically create a rift in communication, I think it&#039;s the combination of these two aging problems that creates such a rift. I believe older pastors with older congregations get quite comfortable ministering to their grey or blue haired counterparts, but may forget over time how to communicate effectively with a younger crowd. Communication is a skill and if you don&#039;t use it, you tend to lose it. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points, Ron. </p>
<p>While you&#039;re right in saying that an age gap does not automatically create a rift in communication, I think it&#039;s the combination of these two aging problems that creates such a rift. I believe older pastors with older congregations get quite comfortable ministering to their grey or blue haired counterparts, but may forget over time how to communicate effectively with a younger crowd. Communication is a skill and if you don&#039;t use it, you tend to lose it.</p>
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		<title>By: newlutheran</title>
		<link>http://www.newlutheran.com/2009/07/01/how-old-is-old/comment-page-1/#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>newlutheran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 13:32:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newlutheran.com/?p=14#comment-24</guid>
		<description>Yes, &quot;singles&quot; is another dying breed in a lot of churches, but it depends on where you look. There&#039;s a local church here that considers itself &quot;a singles church&quot; (&lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/2009/06/29/a-good-problem-to-have/)&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/2009/06/29/a-good-...&lt;/a&gt; but they are a modern and very contemporary church that appeals to younger demographics, regardless of relationship status. We also found that there were a lot of young married couples there who had no kids, another struggling demographic in a lot churches. I&#039;m tired of joining small groups for &quot;young married couples&quot; where all they talk about is dealing with problems with their kids. :-P 
 
In every Lutheran church I&#039;ve visited (granted, that&#039;s not a statistically relevant sample) you&#039;d have to look hard to find representation for either of those demographics. 
 
I grew up receiving Communion in the pew actually. At the large Baptist church I grew up in, they &quot;passed the plates&quot; much the same way they did for the offering. It wasn&#039;t until I joined my first Lutheran church that I experienced coming up to the front for Communion and either standing or kneeling. Personally, I have no preference, as long as the method used for Communion allows the receiver to quiet their heart and prepare themselves for the moment. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, &quot;singles&quot; is another dying breed in a lot of churches, but it depends on where you look. There&#039;s a local church here that considers itself &quot;a singles church&quot; (<a href="http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/2009/06/29/a-good-problem-to-have/)" target="_blank">http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/2009/06/29/a-good-&#8230;</a> but they are a modern and very contemporary church that appeals to younger demographics, regardless of relationship status. We also found that there were a lot of young married couples there who had no kids, another struggling demographic in a lot churches. I&#039;m tired of joining small groups for &quot;young married couples&quot; where all they talk about is dealing with problems with their kids. <img src='http://www.newlutheran.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':-P' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>In every Lutheran church I&#039;ve visited (granted, that&#039;s not a statistically relevant sample) you&#039;d have to look hard to find representation for either of those demographics. </p>
<p>I grew up receiving Communion in the pew actually. At the large Baptist church I grew up in, they &quot;passed the plates&quot; much the same way they did for the offering. It wasn&#039;t until I joined my first Lutheran church that I experienced coming up to the front for Communion and either standing or kneeling. Personally, I have no preference, as long as the method used for Communion allows the receiver to quiet their heart and prepare themselves for the moment.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Amundson</title>
		<link>http://www.newlutheran.com/2009/07/01/how-old-is-old/comment-page-1/#comment-23</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Amundson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 22:27:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newlutheran.com/?p=14#comment-23</guid>
		<description>The age gap and relating is an interesting one.... I concur with the 50+ to 25-35 range, but not so much for the teen-25 domain. To some extent, the older fellows have been there done that, seen this, went whoa over that across a couple generations, and the skills to relate to the young returns... albeit the body may not be so willing. 
 
I think its somewhat the same with embracing change.... I&#039;ve seen many a 50+ progressive change oriented pastor over the years. At 30-40, often times its a second career, and they may just be getting their bearings, and/or they long for old traditions, not sure. 
 
Either way, fascinating stats! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The age gap and relating is an interesting one&#8230;. I concur with the 50+ to 25-35 range, but not so much for the teen-25 domain. To some extent, the older fellows have been there done that, seen this, went whoa over that across a couple generations, and the skills to relate to the young returns&#8230; albeit the body may not be so willing. </p>
<p>I think its somewhat the same with embracing change&#8230;. I&#039;ve seen many a 50+ progressive change oriented pastor over the years. At 30-40, often times its a second career, and they may just be getting their bearings, and/or they long for old traditions, not sure. </p>
<p>Either way, fascinating stats!</p>
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		<title>By: c_p</title>
		<link>http://www.newlutheran.com/2009/07/01/how-old-is-old/comment-page-1/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>c_p</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 02:37:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newlutheran.com/?p=14#comment-21</guid>
		<description>You make quite a few good points.  I grew up attending a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church until the age of 26.  At that time, I moved cross-country to a small town and had to search for a new church for the first time.  During that search I noticed the same thing you did about ages in quite a few churches.  The other problem I found during my search was that I fit into another difficult category - a single woman who is no longer college age.  Unless a church is very large, there is rarely a group or class into which I comfortably fit.  I also have to add that although I&#039;ve attended several churches of different denominations, I&#039;ve never gotten used to having communion in the pew.  :o) </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You make quite a few good points.  I grew up attending a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church until the age of 26.  At that time, I moved cross-country to a small town and had to search for a new church for the first time.  During that search I noticed the same thing you did about ages in quite a few churches.  The other problem I found during my search was that I fit into another difficult category &#8211; a single woman who is no longer college age.  Unless a church is very large, there is rarely a group or class into which I comfortably fit.  I also have to add that although I&#039;ve attended several churches of different denominations, I&#039;ve never gotten used to having communion in the pew.  <img src='http://www.newlutheran.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_surprised.gif' alt=':o' class='wp-smiley' /> )</p>
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		<title>By: newlutheran</title>
		<link>http://www.newlutheran.com/2009/07/01/how-old-is-old/comment-page-1/#comment-16</link>
		<dc:creator>newlutheran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newlutheran.com/?p=14#comment-16</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the prayers and encouragement Katherine. Both are always welcome. :-) </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the prayers and encouragement Katherine. Both are always welcome. <img src='http://www.newlutheran.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Katherine</title>
		<link>http://www.newlutheran.com/2009/07/01/how-old-is-old/comment-page-1/#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>Katherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:04:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newlutheran.com/?p=14#comment-15</guid>
		<description>Thank you for taking the time to reply. I&#039;m sorry if I might have seemed crass, I just wanted to present an idea that you will most likely encounter in the future as well. It is very exciting and also scary going into a new church. I&#039;m actually on the road to Catholicism from being a lifelong Lutheran. If you have any questions at all, feel free to email me at hoff2308@fredonia.edu. I&#039;m vaguely familiar with how the liturgy has developed (ELCA mostly) and about current changes and debates in the church. I&#039;d be happy to help or to refer you. 
 
I will pray for you and I hope you and your family enjoy this new journey :) </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for taking the time to reply. I&#039;m sorry if I might have seemed crass, I just wanted to present an idea that you will most likely encounter in the future as well. It is very exciting and also scary going into a new church. I&#039;m actually on the road to Catholicism from being a lifelong Lutheran. If you have any questions at all, feel free to email me at <a href="mailto:hoff2308@fredonia.edu">hoff2308@fredonia.edu</a>. I&#039;m vaguely familiar with how the liturgy has developed (ELCA mostly) and about current changes and debates in the church. I&#039;d be happy to help or to refer you. </p>
<p>I will pray for you and I hope you and your family enjoy this new journey <img src='http://www.newlutheran.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: newlutheran</title>
		<link>http://www.newlutheran.com/2009/07/01/how-old-is-old/comment-page-1/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>newlutheran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:53:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newlutheran.com/?p=14#comment-5</guid>
		<description>Thanks so much for your feedback Katherine!  
  
I agree completely that there are similar debates in other denominations. My next post on this site mentions that the 20-30 year old crowd is largely missing from most churches. Perhaps some of my opinions stem from my location. Here in the southeastern US, other churches seem to be doing a better job of reaching my demographic. I live around the corner from a rather large nondenominational church (that happens to have Baptist roots). When we visit this church, it seems like the 20-30 year old crowd is actually in the majority there. They teach Christ crucified, atonement, grace, forgiveness, peace, love... they teach the Bible. They receive Communion (although not every Sunday). They sing songs of praise. The differences I see are less about theology and more about the packaging.  
  
Some may say that because the message of Christ is timeless, the packaging doesn&#039;t matter. But drawing on my mission field experiences, it&#039;s clear that even a timeless message needs to be packaged in such a way that the target audience is able to clearly receive it. A missionary needs to translate the message to reach new audiences.  
  
I&#039;ve heard a lot of talk about how my generation is somehow more &quot;lost&quot; than others, but I have trouble buying this. It seems like some churches just throw their hands up in the air and claim that we&#039;re unreachable. I don&#039;t believe my generation, on the whole, is rejecting the message of the church. They do, however, seem to be rejecting the packaging of that message. We have to be able to admit that my generation grew up differently. We grew up connected, wired, plugged in. We grew up in a global community connected through keyboards and mice. We grew up with instant access to whatever media we wanted. Good, bad, or ugly... if it was &quot;out there&quot;, we could get it. Can we expect to reach a generation like this the same way we we reached this age group 30 years ago?  
  
Your point about worshiping God how God wants is brilliant, and I genuinely appreciate it. This concept does beg another question though: how does God want to be worshiped? Perhaps this is the real debate. Is a traditional Lutheran service closer to the way God wants to be worshiped than the pentecostal service going on across town? We do have examples of worship in the Bible. What does the Bible say about it? Psalm 98 comes to mind... Psalm 47... Psalm 63... Why do I find myself refraining from clapping in a Lutheran church? What am I afraid of?  
  
My point is that much of what I find in the Lutheran church is based more on tradition than actual Biblical example. There&#039;s nothing wrong with traditions, but they can get in the way of the message if you let them.  
  
I do sincerely apologize for insulting you or anyone else through my opinions here. I&#039;m not trying to be malicious with my words. I&#039;ve simply not really found many answers to some of my questions and I&#039;m hoping this site will spark some discussion. And, even in its infancy, it seems that it already has. :-) </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks so much for your feedback Katherine!  </p>
<p>I agree completely that there are similar debates in other denominations. My next post on this site mentions that the 20-30 year old crowd is largely missing from most churches. Perhaps some of my opinions stem from my location. Here in the southeastern US, other churches seem to be doing a better job of reaching my demographic. I live around the corner from a rather large nondenominational church (that happens to have Baptist roots). When we visit this church, it seems like the 20-30 year old crowd is actually in the majority there. They teach Christ crucified, atonement, grace, forgiveness, peace, love&#8230; they teach the Bible. They receive Communion (although not every Sunday). They sing songs of praise. The differences I see are less about theology and more about the packaging.  </p>
<p>Some may say that because the message of Christ is timeless, the packaging doesn&#39;t matter. But drawing on my mission field experiences, it&#39;s clear that even a timeless message needs to be packaged in such a way that the target audience is able to clearly receive it. A missionary needs to translate the message to reach new audiences.  </p>
<p>I&#39;ve heard a lot of talk about how my generation is somehow more &quot;lost&quot; than others, but I have trouble buying this. It seems like some churches just throw their hands up in the air and claim that we&#39;re unreachable. I don&#39;t believe my generation, on the whole, is rejecting the message of the church. They do, however, seem to be rejecting the packaging of that message. We have to be able to admit that my generation grew up differently. We grew up connected, wired, plugged in. We grew up in a global community connected through keyboards and mice. We grew up with instant access to whatever media we wanted. Good, bad, or ugly&#8230; if it was &quot;out there&quot;, we could get it. Can we expect to reach a generation like this the same way we we reached this age group 30 years ago?  </p>
<p>Your point about worshiping God how God wants is brilliant, and I genuinely appreciate it. This concept does beg another question though: how does God want to be worshiped? Perhaps this is the real debate. Is a traditional Lutheran service closer to the way God wants to be worshiped than the pentecostal service going on across town? We do have examples of worship in the Bible. What does the Bible say about it? Psalm 98 comes to mind&#8230; Psalm 47&#8230; Psalm 63&#8230; Why do I find myself refraining from clapping in a Lutheran church? What am I afraid of?  </p>
<p>My point is that much of what I find in the Lutheran church is based more on tradition than actual Biblical example. There&#39;s nothing wrong with traditions, but they can get in the way of the message if you let them.  </p>
<p>I do sincerely apologize for insulting you or anyone else through my opinions here. I&#39;m not trying to be malicious with my words. I&#39;ve simply not really found many answers to some of my questions and I&#39;m hoping this site will spark some discussion. And, even in its infancy, it seems that it already has. <img src='http://www.newlutheran.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: newlutheran</title>
		<link>http://www.newlutheran.com/2009/07/01/how-old-is-old/comment-page-1/#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator>newlutheran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:25:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newlutheran.com/?p=14#comment-9</guid>
		<description>Wow! Quite a diverse denominational background you have there! I can only imagine the perspective you&#039;ve managed to gain through your journey through various churches. 
 
I never intended to &quot;explore&quot; other church communities. I was raised Baptist and probably would have stayed Baptist if it hadn&#039;t been for my wife. She was raised Lutheran and I realized that she&#039;d never feel at home anywhere else. We compromised by agreeing that we&#039;d join a Lutheran church if we could find one with a contemporary service where I could help lead worship. Even that compromise has been difficult (and that&#039;s an understatement). </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! Quite a diverse denominational background you have there! I can only imagine the perspective you&#039;ve managed to gain through your journey through various churches. </p>
<p>I never intended to &quot;explore&quot; other church communities. I was raised Baptist and probably would have stayed Baptist if it hadn&#039;t been for my wife. She was raised Lutheran and I realized that she&#039;d never feel at home anywhere else. We compromised by agreeing that we&#039;d join a Lutheran church if we could find one with a contemporary service where I could help lead worship. Even that compromise has been difficult (and that&#039;s an understatement).</p>
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		<title>By: ~PW</title>
		<link>http://www.newlutheran.com/2009/07/01/how-old-is-old/comment-page-1/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>~PW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newlutheran.com/?p=14#comment-7</guid>
		<description> (part 2) I met my husband at seminary. We were both baptist. He had his pastoring credentials at first in Baptist churches, then several years ago switched over to another denomination.My dad&#039;s funeral shook me up. Not just in the normal grief way, but religiously. So for several months after the initial grief began to wear off, I started exploring the various faith groups from his original branch of Eastern Orthodox, to Baptist, to etc etc, including Lutheran. I&#039;m not currently associated with a Lutheran church, I&#039;m beginning to see their merits. I&#039;m still comparing them (as you are) to my Anabaptist/Pentecostal background. I have been doing a lot of reading too.  Feel free to read my back posts on my &quot;what is a real Christian&quot; blog. There&#039;s been some interesting discussions. Also you stumbled upon my twitter page ....I&#039;m gardengirl07.    </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(part 2) I met my husband at seminary. We were both baptist. He had his pastoring credentials at first in Baptist churches, then several years ago switched over to another denomination.My dad&#039;s funeral shook me up. Not just in the normal grief way, but religiously. So for several months after the initial grief began to wear off, I started exploring the various faith groups from his original branch of Eastern Orthodox, to Baptist, to etc etc, including Lutheran. I&#039;m not currently associated with a Lutheran church, I&#039;m beginning to see their merits. I&#039;m still comparing them (as you are) to my Anabaptist/Pentecostal background. I have been doing a lot of reading too.  Feel free to read my back posts on my &quot;what is a real Christian&quot; blog. There&#039;s been some interesting discussions. Also you stumbled upon my twitter page &#8230;.I&#039;m gardengirl07.</p>
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