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	<title>Comments on: Are We Missing Out?</title>
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	<link>http://www.newlutheran.com/2009/10/09/are-we-missing-out/</link>
	<description>My story of being new in an old church...</description>
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		<title>By: Martijn</title>
		<link>http://www.newlutheran.com/2009/10/09/are-we-missing-out/comment-page-1/#comment-61162</link>
		<dc:creator>Martijn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 11:41:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newlutheran.com/?p=89#comment-61162</guid>
		<description>Funny to see how things look quite similar in different national contexts while there are still some essential differences. In The Netherlands the Lutheran church has never been a large denomination (most protestant churches are inspired by Calvin). For almost a century Dutch society was highly &#039;pillarized&#039;: each societal or religious group had its own schools, sport clubs, television broadcaster and so on. However, being only a small group Dutch Lutherans never did have their own pillar. So they participated in the other pillars. But still, for some misty reason, I hardly ever meet fellow Lutherans at non-Lutheran (protestant) conferences. They simply don&#039;t show up or are completely invisible. With a lack of Lutheran conferences and gatherings there seems to be a high level of passivity among Lutherans in this small European country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny to see how things look quite similar in different national contexts while there are still some essential differences. In The Netherlands the Lutheran church has never been a large denomination (most protestant churches are inspired by Calvin). For almost a century Dutch society was highly &#39;pillarized&#39;: each societal or religious group had its own schools, sport clubs, television broadcaster and so on. However, being only a small group Dutch Lutherans never did have their own pillar. So they participated in the other pillars. But still, for some misty reason, I hardly ever meet fellow Lutherans at non-Lutheran (protestant) conferences. They simply don&#39;t show up or are completely invisible. With a lack of Lutheran conferences and gatherings there seems to be a high level of passivity among Lutherans in this small European country.</p>
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		<title>By: New Lutheran</title>
		<link>http://www.newlutheran.com/2009/10/09/are-we-missing-out/comment-page-1/#comment-61081</link>
		<dc:creator>New Lutheran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:58:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newlutheran.com/?p=89#comment-61081</guid>
		<description>Crystal,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Thanks for stopping by and you&#039;re quite welcome for the shout-out. I didn&#039;t want to single you out but I was just shocked to only find one Lutheran out of the hundreds that I follow tweeting and blogging about such a large conference.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I definitely agree with your concept of clinging to identity. Lutherans have done a good job of creating a subculture for themselves but many Lutherans have isolated themselves within this subculture to the point where they&#039;re losing their connection to the larger church. This seems like a dangerous trend to me. I need context for my faith. I need to feel connected. I need to remember that this thing is bigger than me or my local church or my Lutheran identity.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Another commenter on this post stated that the megachurches and preachers who have a heavy following are big for a reason. Yes, I definitely believe that they are doing *something* right and that the Lutheran church could learn a thing or two from movements like these. But I also believe that the Lutheran church is doing something right in honoring time-honored theology, tradition, liturgy and history. Perhaps the megachurches of the world could learn a thing or two from us. Think what could be if the two were combined?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I love the idea of trying to generate some old-fashioned Lutheran excitement around next year&#039;s Catalyst conference. Let&#039;s see if we can get this crowd excited, shall we? *grabs pom poms*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Crystal,</p>
<p>Thanks for stopping by and you&#39;re quite welcome for the shout-out. I didn&#39;t want to single you out but I was just shocked to only find one Lutheran out of the hundreds that I follow tweeting and blogging about such a large conference.</p>
<p>I definitely agree with your concept of clinging to identity. Lutherans have done a good job of creating a subculture for themselves but many Lutherans have isolated themselves within this subculture to the point where they&#39;re losing their connection to the larger church. This seems like a dangerous trend to me. I need context for my faith. I need to feel connected. I need to remember that this thing is bigger than me or my local church or my Lutheran identity.</p>
<p>Another commenter on this post stated that the megachurches and preachers who have a heavy following are big for a reason. Yes, I definitely believe that they are doing *something* right and that the Lutheran church could learn a thing or two from movements like these. But I also believe that the Lutheran church is doing something right in honoring time-honored theology, tradition, liturgy and history. Perhaps the megachurches of the world could learn a thing or two from us. Think what could be if the two were combined?</p>
<p>I love the idea of trying to generate some old-fashioned Lutheran excitement around next year&#39;s Catalyst conference. Let&#39;s see if we can get this crowd excited, shall we? *grabs pom poms*</p>
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		<title>By: New Lutheran</title>
		<link>http://www.newlutheran.com/2009/10/09/are-we-missing-out/comment-page-1/#comment-61082</link>
		<dc:creator>New Lutheran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newlutheran.com/?p=89#comment-61082</guid>
		<description>Ryan,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Sadly I tend to agree with you about the lack of &quot;intermingling&quot; with other denominations. We do have a handful of other denominations that we are officially in &quot;full communion&quot; with. This seems to mean that the Lutheran church itself (or specific synods) officially sanction participating in worship or communion together as well as the potential for trading clergy between churches. Honestly, these official relationships seem to have very little impact on individual Lutherans. Most Lutherans I know are no more &quot;interconnected&quot; with these non-Lutheran believers than they were prior to the relationships being formed. I really see these official relationships as a way to share resources among struggling denominations, synods, or congregations.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I guess I&#039;m hoping that at some point Lutherans will want to put our own church in context by seeking out the larger body of believers and participating in worship and &quot;full communion&quot; with other Christians regardless of their denomination (or lack thereof).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I like your last point, but I know I&#039;m not alone here. I know there are others like me. Perhaps we can become (for lack of a better word) catalysts? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan,</p>
<p>Sadly I tend to agree with you about the lack of &#8220;intermingling&#8221; with other denominations. We do have a handful of other denominations that we are officially in &#8220;full communion&#8221; with. This seems to mean that the Lutheran church itself (or specific synods) officially sanction participating in worship or communion together as well as the potential for trading clergy between churches. Honestly, these official relationships seem to have very little impact on individual Lutherans. Most Lutherans I know are no more &#8220;interconnected&#8221; with these non-Lutheran believers than they were prior to the relationships being formed. I really see these official relationships as a way to share resources among struggling denominations, synods, or congregations.</p>
<p>I guess I&#39;m hoping that at some point Lutherans will want to put our own church in context by seeking out the larger body of believers and participating in worship and &#8220;full communion&#8221; with other Christians regardless of their denomination (or lack thereof).</p>
<p>I like your last point, but I know I&#39;m not alone here. I know there are others like me. Perhaps we can become (for lack of a better word) catalysts? <img src='http://www.newlutheran.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: New Lutheran</title>
		<link>http://www.newlutheran.com/2009/10/09/are-we-missing-out/comment-page-1/#comment-61069</link>
		<dc:creator>New Lutheran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:38:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newlutheran.com/?p=89#comment-61069</guid>
		<description>I honestly hadn&#039;t even considered geography as an issue. The main reason, I guess, is that there were roughly 12,000 attendees at Catalyst and I know many traveled from far and wide to attend. From what you&#039;re saying, it sounds like the C21 conference was mostly locals? I&#039;d be interested to know a breakdown of local vs. transient attendees for both conferences.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It&#039;s an interesting point especially considering the (comparative) lack of Lutherans in the southeast. If Catalyst was held in Missouri or Minnesota would more young Lutherans attend? Likewise, would fewer Baptists or nondenominational?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I honestly hadn&#39;t even considered geography as an issue. The main reason, I guess, is that there were roughly 12,000 attendees at Catalyst and I know many traveled from far and wide to attend. From what you&#39;re saying, it sounds like the C21 conference was mostly locals? I&#39;d be interested to know a breakdown of local vs. transient attendees for both conferences.</p>
<p>It&#39;s an interesting point especially considering the (comparative) lack of Lutherans in the southeast. If Catalyst was held in Missouri or Minnesota would more young Lutherans attend? Likewise, would fewer Baptists or nondenominational?</p>
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		<title>By: New Lutheran</title>
		<link>http://www.newlutheran.com/2009/10/09/are-we-missing-out/comment-page-1/#comment-61070</link>
		<dc:creator>New Lutheran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:38:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newlutheran.com/?p=89#comment-61070</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comment, Karen. I&#039;ve definitely heard of some of these movements. Specifically, Pr. Nadia from House for All has commented here in the past and I follow her through Twitter. Do you feel like movements such as these are &quot;catching on&quot; among young Lutherans as a larger movement or do you see them as isolated anomalies? Somewhere in between perhaps?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comment, Karen. I&#39;ve definitely heard of some of these movements. Specifically, Pr. Nadia from House for All has commented here in the past and I follow her through Twitter. Do you feel like movements such as these are &#8220;catching on&#8221; among young Lutherans as a larger movement or do you see them as isolated anomalies? Somewhere in between perhaps?</p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://www.newlutheran.com/2009/10/09/are-we-missing-out/comment-page-1/#comment-61025</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newlutheran.com/?p=89#comment-61025</guid>
		<description>I agree completely, Justin. Thanks for the comment!

I&#039;ve picked up on the discomfort at other events, too. I&#039;ve gotten the same blank expressions when I&#039;ve said &quot;I&#039;m Lutheran&quot;. Honestly though, I think that&#039;s just another symptom of the same problem. We&#039;re not expected to participate like other denominations are because we haven&#039;t for so long.

I definitely recognize the &quot;gut cringing&quot; theology that can be encountered if we open ourselves up to other teachings, but those can be encountered anywhere. I also think that, through discernment, we should be able to take the good and leave the bad. As an example, we used Rob Bell&#039;s NOOMA videos in youth at my previous church. Trendy, catchy, attention-grabbing... all great attributes for youth content. I did find it a bit lacking in some areas though so I made sure to supplement it as we went through some of the series. For example, there wasn&#039;t much talk of what God requires of us as Christians. Nor was there much talk of sin or mankind&#039;s desperate need for a Savior.

I guess I just wish we&#039;d open ourselves up a bit more to the rest of the church. Sometimes I feel as if many Lutherans are forgetting what we&#039;re all a part of here. It&#039;s so much bigger than our local congregation, our liturgy, or even Luther himself. Maybe I&#039;m just high maintenance, but I need to be reminded that &quot;this whole Christ thing&quot; is much larger than what I can fathom. I need to be reminded that I&#039;m part of a universal movement, part of a constant and historical reconciliation between God and us. It can be difficult to pick up on the scale of things on a &quot;typical&quot; Sunday morning. Attending large gatherings like Catalyst, especially cross-denomination, can put what we do and teach into better context.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree completely, Justin. Thanks for the comment!</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve picked up on the discomfort at other events, too. I&#8217;ve gotten the same blank expressions when I&#8217;ve said &#8220;I&#8217;m Lutheran&#8221;. Honestly though, I think that&#8217;s just another symptom of the same problem. We&#8217;re not expected to participate like other denominations are because we haven&#8217;t for so long.</p>
<p>I definitely recognize the &#8220;gut cringing&#8221; theology that can be encountered if we open ourselves up to other teachings, but those can be encountered anywhere. I also think that, through discernment, we should be able to take the good and leave the bad. As an example, we used Rob Bell&#8217;s NOOMA videos in youth at my previous church. Trendy, catchy, attention-grabbing&#8230; all great attributes for youth content. I did find it a bit lacking in some areas though so I made sure to supplement it as we went through some of the series. For example, there wasn&#8217;t much talk of what God requires of us as Christians. Nor was there much talk of sin or mankind&#8217;s desperate need for a Savior.</p>
<p>I guess I just wish we&#8217;d open ourselves up a bit more to the rest of the church. Sometimes I feel as if many Lutherans are forgetting what we&#8217;re all a part of here. It&#8217;s so much bigger than our local congregation, our liturgy, or even Luther himself. Maybe I&#8217;m just high maintenance, but I need to be reminded that &#8220;this whole Christ thing&#8221; is much larger than what I can fathom. I need to be reminded that I&#8217;m part of a universal movement, part of a constant and historical reconciliation between God and us. It can be difficult to pick up on the scale of things on a &#8220;typical&#8221; Sunday morning. Attending large gatherings like Catalyst, especially cross-denomination, can put what we do and teach into better context.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://www.newlutheran.com/2009/10/09/are-we-missing-out/comment-page-1/#comment-61013</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:10:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newlutheran.com/?p=89#comment-61013</guid>
		<description>Thank you for the blog post.  I am constantly saying that mega churches and preachers with a big following are big for a reason and that the Lutheran church does need to learn from our brothers and sisters in Christ who are doing things to attract people to Christ.  With that typed, I also have to type that I have gone to many of these types of events, such as Youth Specialties, the Crystal Cathedral one, etc. and I have had varying experiences.  Sometimes they have been uplifting and an incredible boost for the ministry.  Sometimes I have just felt very uncomfortable.  I will never forget one of the workshops I went to at an event and when I said I was a Lutheran, the speaker asked me &quot;What I was doing here?&quot;  I am not joking.  Talk about uncomfortable.  I have also been to workshops where the preaching/teaching was just gut cringing.  One sermon I heard was on the passage in Revelation about being lukewarm and spit out.  The speaker went on to say how if you aren&#039;t praying in the Spirit God was going to spit out your prayers and ignore them.  He then went on to compare non-believers to demons.  This was also a pretty renown speaker and I sat with my jaw open as I watched people nod their heads.  I turned to my neighbor and asked &quot;Did he just compare non-believers to demons?&quot;  &quot;Oh yeah, I have to use that next week&quot; was the reply. 
So, I am agreeing with you that it is important for events like these to be on our radars, but also be prepared with what you will hear and see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the blog post.  I am constantly saying that mega churches and preachers with a big following are big for a reason and that the Lutheran church does need to learn from our brothers and sisters in Christ who are doing things to attract people to Christ.  With that typed, I also have to type that I have gone to many of these types of events, such as Youth Specialties, the Crystal Cathedral one, etc. and I have had varying experiences.  Sometimes they have been uplifting and an incredible boost for the ministry.  Sometimes I have just felt very uncomfortable.  I will never forget one of the workshops I went to at an event and when I said I was a Lutheran, the speaker asked me &#8220;What I was doing here?&#8221;  I am not joking.  Talk about uncomfortable.  I have also been to workshops where the preaching/teaching was just gut cringing.  One sermon I heard was on the passage in Revelation about being lukewarm and spit out.  The speaker went on to say how if you aren&#8217;t praying in the Spirit God was going to spit out your prayers and ignore them.  He then went on to compare non-believers to demons.  This was also a pretty renown speaker and I sat with my jaw open as I watched people nod their heads.  I turned to my neighbor and asked &#8220;Did he just compare non-believers to demons?&#8221;  &#8220;Oh yeah, I have to use that next week&#8221; was the reply.<br />
So, I am agreeing with you that it is important for events like these to be on our radars, but also be prepared with what you will hear and see.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.newlutheran.com/2009/10/09/are-we-missing-out/comment-page-1/#comment-61010</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newlutheran.com/?p=89#comment-61010</guid>
		<description>Hey NewLutheran &amp; friends!

My own perspective sounds like it&#039;s highly unlikely that Lutherans purposefully missed out on the conference. Based on everything I know, Lutherans are sincerely trying to get themselves involved in more &#039;charismatic&#039; or energetic forms of ministry, like the Catalyst conference. I used to attend Mars Hill in Grand Rapids, the church that Rob Bell pastors. They are incredibly interconnected with the other &#039;Bible&#039; or &#039;nondenominational&#039; churches. The thing is, as Lutherans aren&#039;t incredibly apt to intermingle with other denominations, so too these churches more or less tick together as if they were a denomination. It&#039;s very rare for any particular group to intermingle with another. The key is having people like you and others who keep one foot in the goings-on at these other churches. Whose responsibility and vocation is that exactly in the Lutheran church? Maybe it is yours, specifically to get the word out and encourage leaders to attend such gatherings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey NewLutheran &amp; friends!</p>
<p>My own perspective sounds like it&#8217;s highly unlikely that Lutherans purposefully missed out on the conference. Based on everything I know, Lutherans are sincerely trying to get themselves involved in more &#8216;charismatic&#8217; or energetic forms of ministry, like the Catalyst conference. I used to attend Mars Hill in Grand Rapids, the church that Rob Bell pastors. They are incredibly interconnected with the other &#8216;Bible&#8217; or &#8216;nondenominational&#8217; churches. The thing is, as Lutherans aren&#8217;t incredibly apt to intermingle with other denominations, so too these churches more or less tick together as if they were a denomination. It&#8217;s very rare for any particular group to intermingle with another. The key is having people like you and others who keep one foot in the goings-on at these other churches. Whose responsibility and vocation is that exactly in the Lutheran church? Maybe it is yours, specifically to get the word out and encourage leaders to attend such gatherings.</p>
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		<title>By: Soul Munchies &#187; Where Were All the Lutherans?</title>
		<link>http://www.newlutheran.com/2009/10/09/are-we-missing-out/comment-page-1/#comment-60960</link>
		<dc:creator>Soul Munchies &#187; Where Were All the Lutherans?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 13:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newlutheran.com/?p=89#comment-60960</guid>
		<description>[...] of newlutheran.com posted a great article about the lack of Lutherans at the conference &#8211; check it out. In response to him, I suggested that we try to find a group of young Lutheran leaders who are [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of newlutheran.com posted a great article about the lack of Lutherans at the conference &#8211; check it out. In response to him, I suggested that we try to find a group of young Lutheran leaders who are [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Crystal</title>
		<link>http://www.newlutheran.com/2009/10/09/are-we-missing-out/comment-page-1/#comment-60952</link>
		<dc:creator>Crystal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newlutheran.com/?p=89#comment-60952</guid>
		<description>First of all, thanks for the shout-out.  This is an awesome post and I&#039;m honored to be mentioned in it.

I agree - it&#039;s a shame that there weren&#039;t more Lutherans at the Catalyst conference.  I get so frustrated at Lutheran events because it has typically been the same ole&#039; people over and over again.  Studies show that denominations are dying and people are flocking to non-denominational churches that care more about Jesus than they do the denominational affiliation.  Yet it seems we Lutherans aren&#039;t ready to embrace that and we cling to our identity of Lutherans over and above our identity as Christians.

This week, I&#039;m hoping to blog at least one new blog post a day about Catalyst.  I&#039;m sorry you couldn&#039;t be there.  My personal opinion is that Catalyst 2009 rocked the socks off of Catalyst 2008.  If you can go in 2010, let&#039;s go &quot;as a group&quot; ... tickets are cheaper.  In fact, why don&#039;t we try to get a large group of young Lutheran leaders to all meet up there?  I feel an opportunity rising...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all, thanks for the shout-out.  This is an awesome post and I&#8217;m honored to be mentioned in it.</p>
<p>I agree &#8211; it&#8217;s a shame that there weren&#8217;t more Lutherans at the Catalyst conference.  I get so frustrated at Lutheran events because it has typically been the same ole&#8217; people over and over again.  Studies show that denominations are dying and people are flocking to non-denominational churches that care more about Jesus than they do the denominational affiliation.  Yet it seems we Lutherans aren&#8217;t ready to embrace that and we cling to our identity of Lutherans over and above our identity as Christians.</p>
<p>This week, I&#8217;m hoping to blog at least one new blog post a day about Catalyst.  I&#8217;m sorry you couldn&#8217;t be there.  My personal opinion is that Catalyst 2009 rocked the socks off of Catalyst 2008.  If you can go in 2010, let&#8217;s go &#8220;as a group&#8221; &#8230; tickets are cheaper.  In fact, why don&#8217;t we try to get a large group of young Lutheran leaders to all meet up there?  I feel an opportunity rising&#8230;</p>
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